A Conversation On Mormonism

This is another posting from my former website, it also was first posted in September of 2004.
This, like the conversation on baptisim is the following of an actual conversation on a message board.
As noted below, because it is from a message board it can be a bit hard to follow at times.

Because the following is from a message board, the conversation may not be the easiest to follow.If you use message boards then you know that any person can jump in the conversation at any point and jump out at any point; so some thoughts here could seem a bit scattered. My part of the conversation will be in blue text while others will be in black.

(Because of complaints from participants in these conversations, I have removed their user names and will use the formula of ‘Speaker A’, ‘Speaker B’ and so on).


 

Speaker A wrote:Oh my word… OH MY WORD!!! NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!!!! Will i LEAVE MY CHURCH! It was your choice to leave your own. I will never leave my church if I had to kill myself to to it. I have a strong Testimony and Satan has lead you away from a great church. If you had ever attended our church, you MIGHT just see why I love it so much. I want to live with my Heavenly Father, no matter what anyone says or does. To be with him is the greatest and happiest I will be.


I realize I am very late to this thread. But being fairly new to these boards this is the first time I’ve seen this thread.

At any rate, I was once like you. I would never had considered leaving the LDS church. After all, my family came here to America only three years after the founding of the LDS church and all my family on my fathers side have been LDS since then.

Well, praise to God I found that the LDS church is a false religion and that the god of the LDS church is NOT the God of creation who is described to us in the Holy Bible.

The god of the LDS church does not exist.

It was a long hard road to leave the LDS church. I fought it, but presented the evidence I was, there was no way I could stay.

To stay meant that I would remain seperated from God for all eternity, as one cannot worship a false non-existent god and then expect to spend eternity in the presence of the one and only, holy God.



Speaker A wrote:I was at a Youth Conference and I found the greatest feeling in the world. I felt the words of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit fill within me. I went up into my room and sung my heart out. I felt the most joyous I have ever felt. This Church is strong in my life, and I will never leave it. The greatest feeling in my life was strong when I stood in the Temple of Salt Lake City. This is my strongest belief in the church.

Yes. I once had those same feelings when I was LDS.
I also had the ‘burning in the bossom’ many times.
I gave testimony untold times.

But, one can not use experiance and feelings alone to measure truth.

In the end, the evidence showed that my experiances and feelings were deception weather self-made deception or satanic deception.


Speaker A wrote:Some people can inturperet The Book of Mormon wrongly

The problem is more in the D&C, Pearl of Great Price and the Discourses.
The aboive books not only contridict the Bible but the Book of Mormon as well.

The LDS church you are currently growing up in is different than the one I grew up in. The LDS church I grew up in was different than the one my father grew up in, etc…

A common theme in the LDS church is #1 the changing of doctrine, #2 the hiding and denying of doctrine to the general public.

There were things I practiced as a young LDS member that I assure you, you do not practice.

I was twelve years old and had just become a deacon when the first black man in our ward was also allowed to become a deacon. A common belief had changed during that time.

Previously black people were told that their skin would turn white once in heaven.

I was taught that god had physical sex with Mary. You are not taught this now.

Many current LDS members think I am lying when I say I was taught this doctrine. But I am not, it is simply that the doctrine has changed over the years.

I was tught that any person who was not a member of ‘the one true church’ was not Christian and would go to hell.

The LDS church is one of deceptions and belief in it’s doctrines will keep a person forever seperated from God.

I don’t want to argue with or debate you. You are to young for me to do that. So, if you make reply to me please know I do not plan on making reply back.

I don’t think that I am the person God has sent to witness to you. But I pray a seed has been planted and that God will send another to witness to you and your family.


Speaker B wrote: As for Prophets. God did send Prophets after Christ’s resurection. Atleast if you believe the Bible.


Speaker B,
perhaps God has sent more prophets, perhaps He has not.

The test is simple, if a person declares himself a prophet let us test his words agsinst the Word of God.

If the person disagrees with God, if the person attempts to change what God has said and set forth, then that person is false and does not know God.


Speaker C wrote:Speaker F and Speaker B, rfburn’s reply pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

Bottom line is that the LDS teachings from Your “prophets” simply do not stay in line with that of God’s Word. Many of you have said yourself that it is how you intrepret the bible. NO! It is how you twist God’s word to fit into Joseph Smith’s interpretation. How could soo many be wrong and LDS be right? Were all the previous men and women of God wrong? Are you saying that nobody got it right before this young boy’s “vission”?


Speaker D wrote: Speaker C, I could say the same about you. That you are twisting the word of God to fit your interpretation. You claim the Bible is the only true word yet so many people interpret the teachings differently that how is one to know which is correct? Which “christian” religion has the teachings of the Bible 100% right? Don’t tell me they all do, because they have differing ideas on meaning. Also, I know those men the LDS church call prophets may seem horrible to you especially with teachings such as God loves us, Christ is our redeemer, importance of family, sanctity of marriage, and many other horrible teachings like these. Lastly, if you are basing your argument of veracity on numbers then we all need to join Islam, because how could they all be wrong.


Speaker D, being that we have seperated ourselves from God in our sin no one has it all right.
But there are some who have it nearly all wrong. The LDS church is one which has it nearly all wrong.

The LDS church (being LDS I’m sure you well know this) believes that a man may become a god. This alone is revelation enough to know that the LDS church is not in worship of the one true God.


Speaker E wrote: I don’t think Speaker C is saying that teaching “God loves us, Christ is our redeemer, et.” is horrible, c’mon you know better than that


Speaker C wasn’t saying that, Speaker D was bobing and weaving to avoid what was at hand because Speaker D has clearly had these conversations before and knows what lines of questioning to avoid.


Speaker E wrote: but I agree with you (Speaker D) that so many Christians have different teachings, they believe their way is right, but anyway, what about when Paul said he was sent to fulfill the scriptures.


Yes, of course the ‘mainline’ Christian ‘sects’ do not agree on everything because we are all persons of sin. Our sin prevents us from knowing God in whole.

However, the ‘mainline’ Christian churches do agree upon the essentials of the Christian faith. Now granted, the LDS church would agree with these essentials as well but in name only. The meanings are different and that iis where the difference begins but surely not where it ends.


Speaker D wrote:
That is such BS. Mormons are Christians, in that we believe that Christ sacrificed himself for us so that we may inherit eternal life. We believe him to be the Son of God. However, we do NOT believe that this absolves us from any responsibility for our actions. Mormons believe that all people are literally spirit children of God, and as children become adults, we have the potential for Godhood as we grow and progress through eternity. In fact we believe that this is what God WANTS for his children. He wants us to progress. Anyway, we’ll never agree on it, but this belief does NOT make us un-Christian.


Not B.S. at all.
You and I believe in different gods.

The possibilites are:
1) neither the god you believe in or the the God I believe in exist.
2)the god you believe in does exist and the God I believe in does not. 3)the God I believe in does exist and the god you believe in does not.

These alone are the possibilites.

There is no fourth possibility as it is not possible that the god you believe in and the God I believe in both exist.

The belief of a person attaining god-hood does in fact make the LDS religion and it’s members who believe such doctrine non-christian.

Not you or any other man may become a god. There is only one God. There has always been only one God, there always will be only one God.


Speaker D wrote: Look, whatever reason you have for trying to destroy another Christian religion


There is not ‘another’ Christian religion. There are denominations within Christianity, but there is only one Christianity.

I don’t know what they are teaching you today in the LDS church, but when I was growing up I was taught that the LDS church was the only true church. I was taught that those outside of the LDS church were not Christian.


Speaker D wrote:I will never understand why some people are so insecure in their own beliefs that they have to attack others.


It has nothing to do with an insecurity of beliefs. It has to do with a group of persons (the LDS in this case) mis-representing God. False information, false doctrine is spread by the LDS church.

In everything, false information must always be countered.


Speaker D wrote: “We believe that all men should be able to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience”. Just don’t say that I am not Christian because I don’t believe exactly the way you do….


That may well be the line, but it is not what the LDS church taught me. It is not what the LDS church taught my father. It is not what the LDS church taught my grand-father and it is not what the LDS church taught his father.

You are not called non-Christian because you do not belive exactly as we do.
The members of the LDS church are non-Christian because the LDS church teaches a different god. Because the LDS church is in worship of a false, non-existent god.


Speaker G wrote: Also, like I said (and predicted) :

“A predictable cowering behind ‘feelings’ rather than solid facts and logic and debate” they’ll assert. Not talking

Not the same words, but all I hear is the tired old assertion that the only way to know one is right in their religion is to come up with the best bash-verse to textually beat anyone else into submission.


Where does this claim come from?
Did I throw a verse at you?


Speaker G wrote: True: sincerity is not enough as a proof of truth.


Wrong. Sincerity is not a proof of truth at all. Sincerity lends no evidence as to the truth of something.


Speaker G wrote: What I said was that I asked in sincerity. Can anyone doubt that I did, and that my intentions were pure?


You may well have asked with sincerity, I’m sure I wouldn’t know one way or the other.
I also prayed/asked with sincerity, I got a different answer then you did. Untold numbers of persons have prayed with sincerity. Our sincierity proves nothing.

As for your intentions, they don’t matter.
Results are what matter of course.


Speaker G wrote: (This is the part where people who think I am going to hell will revert back to the bash verses and try to draw me into a spitting contest in which we “nicely” hurl invective at each other from our respective philosophies and continue to talk right past each other.)


I’ve not bashed you with any verses.


Speaker G wrote: Part of the problem, as I see it, is that we are all speaking different languages. We define words differently and we both see support for our contrasting precepts in the same verses. Latter-day Saints see God as a being with a body, and see Jesus as a separate individual though also divine. Others see God and Christ and the Holy Spirit as one in the same


This has been my point all along and it makes clear the obvious, we worship different gods. You worship one god, I worship another God.

Either one of us is in worship of a false god or both of us are in worship of a false god. But we cannot both worship the true God as there is but one true God.

One or both of us are NOT Christian.
One or both of us are sperated from the God who created us.

If one of us do know the God of creation and the other one of us is in danger of hell, should we not warn the other?

If one of us do know the God of creation and the other belongs to a group which teaches falsehoods about God, should we not stand in defense of the Word of God?

How is it that it is okay for your church and your church members to spread it’s messege but it is wrong for those otuside of your church to spread their messege?


Speaker G wrote: Naturally, as is only reasonable, I am true to the light I have recieved, and I don’t go looking to doubt what I know.


A reasonable person obeys God and tests all things, examine the scripture to see if what we are taught and what our ‘experiance’ and ‘feelings’ tell us are true.

Where we discover we have been taught wrongly, we have misunderstood experiance or listened to closely to feelings then scripture and prayer are there to correct us.

Sometimes that may mean leaving an orginazation which we have spent our lives in and which we love. But it is more important to be true to the God who created us.


Speaker G wrote: Probably my explainations have fallen on deaf ears.


Your explinations were once my own.


Speaker H wrote: Hmm, another popular misconception. People try and twist this in to ‘God will make everyone caucasion’.


Hmmm… this is what I was taught by the LDS church. It is no misconception.


The chance does of course exist that the LDS have since changed their teaching, it wouldn’t be the first time.


Speaker H wrote: As far as I know, the LDS faith is one of the unique faiths in the world who believe that those who don’t get a chance in this life to learn about the Savior, will be given an opportunity in the next life. Sounds like the logical thing to do doesn’t it?


Doesn’t sound logical to me in the least.
The ‘next life’ as it were is an eternal life either with God or without God.

Our chance to accept or reject God comes here on this earth and all persons who ever have lived, who live right now and who ever will live will have had the chance during THIS life to accept or reject God.have the chance to accept or reject God.

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